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Profile Stoneageman
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Message 34175 - Posted: 9 Dec 2013 | 18:41:36 UTC

Sucked it dry it seems!

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Message 34181 - Posted: 10 Dec 2013 | 6:49:00 UTC - in response to Message 34175.

Sucked it dry it seems!

Yeah your credit and rac is way to high :)
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Message 34182 - Posted: 10 Dec 2013 | 9:48:57 UTC - in response to Message 34181.

At first I thought he was complaining then I realized he's bragging. Meh, glad my RAC isn't that high ;)

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Message 34183 - Posted: 10 Dec 2013 | 11:12:53 UTC - in response to Message 34182.

WU finished?
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Message 34184 - Posted: 10 Dec 2013 | 12:13:51 UTC

.... Just a trickle coming through.... but doesn't look too good.

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Message 34185 - Posted: 10 Dec 2013 | 12:27:45 UTC

We should have more in a few hours!

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Message 34188 - Posted: 10 Dec 2013 | 13:20:00 UTC - in response to Message 34185.

Excellent - thanks!


We should have more in a few hours!

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Message 35725 - Posted: 18 Mar 2014 | 18:15:24 UTC

bump ... getting low on the long runs, only 43 in the hopper
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Message 35731 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 6:45:56 UTC

Still empty:

Profile Retvari Zoltan
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Message 35735 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 13:49:58 UTC

Empty. The opposite of full.

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Message 35739 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 16:27:45 UTC

I should be OK for about 8 hours and then Einstein and Milky Way preset as 0% resource share backups will kick in.
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Message 35740 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 16:43:14 UTC

All my machines have the expected number of tasks in progress.

Don't forget that the tasks here automatically regenerate as they're returned - my short-queue cruncher fetched a new one within the last hour.

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Message 35742 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 17:17:23 UTC - in response to Message 35740.
Last modified: 19 Mar 2014 | 17:19:04 UTC

All my machines have the expected number of tasks in progress.

Don't forget that the tasks here automatically regenerate as they're returned - my short-queue cruncher fetched a new one within the last hour.

Yes, it's true. However, this automatic regeneration is a finite process. So the workunits will eventually run out, if no new batches issued soon. The first sign is when the number of the unsent workunits is below 10. The second sign is when the number of workunits in progress is dropping below it's value before the number of unsent workunits was above 10.
Now there is 1684 workunits in progress, it was around 1750 before the unsent queue ran out.

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Message 35743 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 17:51:55 UTC - in response to Message 35739.

I should be OK for about 8 hours and then Einstein and Milky Way preset as 0% resource share backups will kick in.

Now THAT'S a good idea!! I found I had to set the preset to 1%, but I now have Einsteins WUs queued, ready to go!!

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Message 35744 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 19:04:50 UTC - in response to Message 35743.

I should be OK for about 8 hours and then Einstein and Milky Way preset as 0% resource share backups will kick in.

Now THAT'S a good idea!! I found I had to set the preset to 1%, but I now have Einsteins WUs queued, ready to go!!

Well - both my rigs are now busy with Einstein. Why??

Is there no-one on the GPUGrid project available to explain what's happening?

As I climb up through the credit stakes I regularly pass people who have given up. Very sad. But I wonder how many of them dropped out because of lack of communication...

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Message 35745 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 19:17:21 UTC - in response to Message 35744.
Last modified: 19 Mar 2014 | 19:17:49 UTC

Well - both my rigs are now busy with Einstein. Why??

Is there no-one on the GPUGrid project available to explain what's happening?

As I climb up through the credit stakes I regularly pass people who have given up. Very sad. But I wonder how many of them dropped out because of lack of communication...

I agree with you.
But in the meantime a smaller amount (~110) of workunits were put in the long queue, because now there are 6 unsent workunits and 1790 in progress.
So somebody heard us. :)

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Message 35746 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 19:17:39 UTC - in response to Message 35744.
Last modified: 19 Mar 2014 | 19:18:11 UTC

Relax. Projects run out of work. It happens.

Note: I believe setting a Resource Share to 0 means "Only ask that project if all other projects have been asked first. And, when we ask this 0-project, only get 1 work unit per idle resource. We don't want to create a cache for this 0-project."

It's good to have certain projects set to 0 Resource Share, as a backup, for when your main projects happen to run out of work for a while.

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Message 35747 - Posted: 19 Mar 2014 | 19:19:55 UTC

Another 800 workunits were put into the long queue. :)

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Message 35753 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 0:30:22 UTC - in response to Message 35744.
Last modified: 20 Mar 2014 | 0:31:38 UTC

But I wonder how many of them dropped out because of lack of communication...


I would bet 1% or less. This isn't Facebook. The admins don't post about thinking all morning they wanted a cheeseburger for lunch then deciding at the last minute to have a taco instead. This communication thing has been ballyhooed way out of proportion. Stop and think... what genuine harm does it cause any of us if a project runs out of work? If the long queue running out of tasks or a project running temporarily out of work was my biggest problem then I would have a very comfortable life.

Now if you intend to argue that we have no other explanation so it must certainly be lack of communication then go right ahead but be prepared to be severely ridiculed.

And another thing... pissing and moaning about no work has been known to motivate projects to reissue work that's been done just to shut the whiners up. I would not want to buy electricity to crunch tasks that don't need to be crunched just because some cry baby can't find anything else to whine about.

One last item... maybe, just maybe, nobody at the project knows exactly when more tasks will be available. Maybe, just maybe, nobody has time to go around to every scientist on the team and ask and come up with a firm date. The point being that should one of them dare to just estimate the time and date and be wrong then 20 seagulls suddenly arrive out of nowhere, squawking and pissing and moaning all over everything about lack of comms and how their important nose is just soooo out of joint and the world's coming to an end all because of no tasks.

Anybody else need a new one ripped while I'm at it? Or maybe ya just wanna take a valium and a laxative and relax and have a good bowl movement instead?
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Message 35756 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 9:41:05 UTC
Last modified: 20 Mar 2014 | 9:41:32 UTC

Yes we do hear you. We heard you yesterday too. Once everyone is back in the lab later today we will discuss what needs to be simulated or if we have any new interesting projects. As Dagorath says it can take a while sometimes to come up with something good. Unfortunatelly projects don't just flow out of our brains so we need to do some research and find interesting systems which answer interesting biological questions or make new collaborations with other teams. It can sometimes take a while.

Personally a thing I find problematic is that AFAIK we don't have a good estimate on when the queues will run out so that we can plan ahead. You can only really tell in the last few hours before they go dry. Before that since WU's get resent it's quite tricky.

Also, out of curiosity, can't BOINC users configure BOINC to crunch other projects once one runs out? What would the disadvantages be for the crunchers if that happens? We obviously prefer to keep you here :D I just want to know why it is a problem if we shortly run out of WU's.

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Message 35759 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 10:28:42 UTC - in response to Message 35756.
Last modified: 20 Mar 2014 | 15:01:54 UTC

Also, out of curiosity, can't BOINC users configure BOINC to crunch other projects once one runs out? What would the disadvantages be for the crunchers if that happens? We obviously prefer to keep you here :D I just want to know why it is a problem if we shortly run out of WU's.

Yes, crunchers can crunch for other projects. You can set their weighting to be very low, or zero, and only get the odd task, or only get tasks if the main project runs dry.

You will find that many crunchers purchase GPU's to facilitate their choicest project. For a start, if we wanted to crunch for some other projects we would buy ATI cards, and while NVidia's work on some of these projects their relative performance to ATI cards is poor. MilkyWay@home is an example of such a project. Obviously Boinc credits are important for many, so if you use a GPU that is not suited to a project you will have reduced credits. Some projects might not be stable, or there could be compatibility issues running some mixes of work.

Other projects also run dry, and come to an end (WCG and POEM no longer have GPU WU's). You might need to configure to have 3 or 4. So for example, you might have Einstein, MW, and Albert as backup projects. This can be a lot of hassle especially if many projects frequently run dry.

If your project reputation deteriorates you become perceived as an intermittent project and lose many, if not most, of your crunchers. Crunchers come and go, but even those that would hang around cant stay at a project with no work! When they leave they might not come back for a long time.

What you could do is have another Long queue, and that way always have a backup project here. Send the work out from that project/queue as low priority; only if the other work is low or unavailable.

IMO you should be trying to model some more fundamental bio-techniques, and thus better establish your working model.
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Message 35760 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 10:38:26 UTC - in response to Message 35756.
Last modified: 20 Mar 2014 | 10:39:35 UTC

Also, out of curiosity, can't BOINC users configure BOINC to crunch other projects once one runs out?

Yes, we can. This is maybe my personal obsession, but I don't have any spare GPU project. I've built my rig especially for GPUGrid. Sure I could crunch with them for some other GPU project(s) as well, but then I could have built my computers using cheaper AMD GPUs. So their best use is here, at GPUGrid.

What would the disadvantages be for the crunchers if that happens?

My computers provide the heating of our apartment. So in the winter we could feel cold if there's no work on them :) (Don't worry, we have natural gas heating also, and we use it when it's really cold outside.)

We obviously prefer to keep you here :D I just want to know why it is a problem if we shortly run out of WU's.

The annoying part of it is that the RAC is dropping very quickly when it happens. But no real harm is done.

But I'd like to turn this question the way around.
You're using a 1.3PFlop supercomputer, which is granted to you free of charge. Its building cost is around 455.000€, and its monthly running cost is around 17.000€ (probably more, as there are older GPUs also). I would go mad, if I couldn't feed this monster with work. Don't you feel the same way?

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Message 35761 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 10:49:38 UTC
Last modified: 20 Mar 2014 | 10:56:27 UTC

Wow, guys. It is seriously not a big deal, if a project runs out of work. It's your decision on whether you want your computer to be able to be "kept busy" in that scenario. If you do, you can add other projects. And if you only want to crunch those other projects when your main project runs out of work, then set those other projects to a Resource Share of 0.

Want to know something interesting? This outage triggered a bugfix in BOINC!

In my 3-GPU computer, I had previously set up my 2 main GPUs to exclude even the backup projects. But when GPUGrid went dry, I realized that was the wrong setting for me, because I wanted to keep those GPUs busy.

So, in my quest to set things exactly like I wanted, I found a bug. Check out the following email exchange. :) The bugfix won't land until the next version of BOINC is released, but it's good to have been found and fixed.

Anyway, again, it all boils down to: If you want to keep your resources busy even when a project goes idle, then add more projects, and set the settings appropriately! For reference, I'm attached to 29 projects, and have the settings set such that the 2 main GPUs focus on GPUGrid.

Keep up the good work, GPUGrid, and if you run out of work sometimes, so be it.

==================================================
On 19-Mar-2014 3:37 PM, Jacob Klein wrote:

David,

I'm seeing a behavior, and I'm having trouble deciding if it's unsupported functionality, or if it's a bug. Can you please answer and help?

- On the BOINCstats BAM! account manager website, for one of the projects (SETI Beta), I have set a host-specific Resource share (to 0 in my case)
- This is a host-specific setting, separate from the "global project" resource share value.
- I tell BOINC to communicate with BAM!, and I see my client Resource Share get updated (RS changes to 0)
- I click Update on the project, and because the project does not have a "Resource Share change" queued up, my client still correctly says 0.
- I then go to the project website, and change the Resource Share, to 2 for instance
- I click Update on the project, and this time, because the project DOES have a "Resource Share change" queued up, my client now says 2.

Shouldn't it have respected my host-specific account manager value of 0? Or is the concept of a host-specific value, unsupported functionality?
For reference, the client sees that the Project is indeed managed by the Account Manager (I cannot click "Remove")

Please let me know,
Thanks,
Jacob

PS: For anyone who cares to hear the detailed reason of why I'm even playing with this, it goes like this:

- My setup was: 2 beefy GPUs set to work on GPUGrid, with other projects excluded, alongside 1 tiny GPU that had GPUGrid excluded. Exclusions are all done using <exclude_gpu> config in cc_config.xml
- That third GPU was set to only work Albert/Einstein/SETI/SETIBETA, but because I didn't want CPU tasks from them, and wanted to minimize RPCs, those 4 projects were set to Resource Share (RS) of 1.
- GPUGrid recently ran out of work, and my beefy GPUs were idle, due to my settings.
- So I changed the GPU Exclusions to allow the 2 beefy GPUs to work on the 4 projects, but because I wanted to prefer GPUGrid, I wanted to change the 4 projects RSs to 0.
- But I have a separate host with a tiny GPU that actually works those 4 projects and cannot do GPUGrid, and to minimize RPCs, I wanted to change the 4 projects RSs to 1.
- So I decided to leave the project RSs set to 1, but do an Account Manager host-specific setting of 0, on my main 3-GPU-rig, for the 4 projects.
- But that host-specific setting of 0, is getting trumped, and changing to a 1. Bug, right? Sigh.
- If anyone has a better way to accomplish what I want, without doing venues, I'm listening.

==================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 16:33:32 -0700
From: d...@ssl.berkeley.edu
To: boinc_alph...@ssl.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [boinc_alpha] Account Manager Host-specific Resource Share vs. Project Resource Share

It's a bug; if an account manager specifies a resource share,
that's supposed to trump the one returned by projects.

I fixed this (not tested).

-- David

==================================================
From: j...@msn.com
To: d...@ssl.berkeley.edu; boinc_alph...@ssl.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [boinc_alpha] Account Manager Host-specific Resource Share vs. Project Resource Share
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 20:06:54 -0400

Thanks for the quick response. I'll try to give it some testing, in the next BOINC alpha release.
Host-specific settings are a handy feature for an Account Manager to have!

==================================================

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Message 35763 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 11:51:46 UTC
Last modified: 20 Mar 2014 | 11:52:45 UTC

Ok, thanks for the info :) So mostly dedicated equipment, RAC and messy BOINC configuration.
Yes of course we want to use it to it's maximum! And I am actually impressed at how much we do considering the amount of scientists in the lab. There is always though the "problem" that after simulating we need to analyze the data and publish :P And in parallel we need to send out new projects. It's tricky to time everything so well and sometimes the timing doesn't work out, like now.

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Message 35764 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 12:05:57 UTC

I'm sickened by the number of "volunteers" who think this project should serve them instead of the other way around. "My RAC is falling, the sky is falling, I broke a nail, it's all your fault, now do the impossible and get me some tasks or I'm a whine like a baby, wah, wah, wah, wah, hurry up you're not doing the impossible fast enough".

I don't think I want to be part of a group that acts that way. I feel like I'm in with a bunch of 15 year old Twitter twits and bubble-gummers. I don't want anything to do with people like that. Thanks for all the advice and jokes but you're not the kind of people I want to be associated with.

Detached.


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Message 35765 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 12:21:16 UTC - in response to Message 35764.
Last modified: 20 Mar 2014 | 12:21:59 UTC

I'm sickened by the number of "volunteers" who think this project should serve them instead of the other way around. "My RAC is falling, the sky is falling, I broke a nail, it's all your fault, now do the impossible and get me some tasks or I'm a whine like a baby, wah, wah, wah, wah, hurry up you're not doing the impossible fast enough".

I don't think I want to be part of a group that acts that way. I feel like I'm in with a bunch of 15 year old Twitter twits and bubble-gummers. I don't want anything to do with people like that. Thanks for all the advice and jokes but you're not the kind of people I want to be associated with.

Detached.


I think it's more the times, almost everything we do not is instant, a cup of coffee on every corner, a food place too, internet with ALL of it's info is at our fingertips 24/7, need a new part for something it can be delivered tomorrow! And then when there is a problem we want it fixed NOW too, just like everything else in our lives. We have forgotten about THE PEOPLE behind the scenes making everything work, unless of course we our selves are involved in those problems or fixes, or whatever. Want to file a FOI request, no problem here's the form. You say you want to wait for the response, GIVE ME A BREAK, it can take MONTHS or YEARS for it to be even considered let alone filled! People have forgotten what it takes to make this an 'everything at our fingertips World', the data is available and we want it NOW!!!

ps I HOPE you didn't REALLY leave, but if you did good luck in your next endeavor!

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Message 35766 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 12:49:20 UTC - in response to Message 35764.
Last modified: 20 Mar 2014 | 12:49:37 UTC

Dagorath:

Not everyone acts as you describe. I think it's a bit silly to leave a project due to the way other people act. But it's your call.
I'm here for the science.

- Jacob Klein

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Message 35767 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 13:05:54 UTC - in response to Message 35765.

That felt so good I decided to get rid of BOINC entirely including browser bookmarks to anything to do with BOINC. I'm sure the feeling is mutual but tell someone who cares.

Expunge my records, please. Don't want anybody knowing I was here, damages my reputation as a thinker.

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Message 35769 - Posted: 20 Mar 2014 | 15:31:42 UTC - in response to Message 35767.

That felt so good I decided to get rid of BOINC entirely including browser bookmarks to anything to do with BOINC. I'm sure the feeling is mutual but tell someone who cares.

Expunge my records, please. Don't want anybody knowing I was here, damages my reputation as a thinker.


Sounds like a bad day, I HOPE some soda/beer/whiskey/time/whatever will let you reconsider your decisions. But if not it was nice talking to you and I wish you the best!

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Message 35800 - Posted: 22 Mar 2014 | 6:31:10 UTC

.............Anyway, could those of us still here have some more WU's please?

Thanks!

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Message 35803 - Posted: 22 Mar 2014 | 10:28:07 UTC - in response to Message 35800.

We will receive more GPUGrid work, when more work is available.

In the meantime, I recommend attaching to multiple GPU projects, so that you can still keep your GPUs busy until then. You can even set their Resource Shares to 0, which will only get work when your main project(s) are empty.

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Message 35826 - Posted: 23 Mar 2014 | 14:26:16 UTC - in response to Message 35800.

............ And all flowing again.

Many thanks!!

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Message 35846 - Posted: 24 Mar 2014 | 10:02:37 UTC

In 2-3 days we will have lots of new simulations. Noelia and Nate are setting them up right now.

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Message 35847 - Posted: 24 Mar 2014 | 10:16:00 UTC - in response to Message 35846.

Let Noelia take her time! We don't want bad, hastily made WUs from Noelia! :)
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Message 35852 - Posted: 24 Mar 2014 | 11:12:41 UTC - in response to Message 35846.

Thanks -- let Noelia and Nate know that we appreciate any opportunity to volunteer for them!

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Message 35864 - Posted: 24 Mar 2014 | 14:50:49 UTC - in response to Message 35764.

I'm sickened by the number of "volunteers" who think this project should serve them instead of the other way around. "My RAC is falling, the sky is falling, I broke a nail, it's all your fault, now do the impossible and get me some tasks or I'm a whine like a baby, wah, wah, wah, wah, hurry up you're not doing the impossible fast enough".

I don't think I want to be part of a group that acts that way. I feel like I'm in with a bunch of 15 year old Twitter twits and bubble-gummers. I don't want anything to do with people like that. Thanks for all the advice and jokes but you're not the kind of people I want to be associated with.

Detached.



Wow..... that must be a world record distance for spitting the dummy out!!!

GPUGRID must be one of the most reliable BOINC projects and is a much more worthwhile project than a lot of them. A lot of people have invested a lot of money in expensive GPU cards to run this project and "Credit" and "RAC" is almost addicitive,

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Message 36266 - Posted: 13 Apr 2014 | 21:48:03 UTC

Alright!! It looks like we're actually going to run the server dry of GPU tasks again - Congratulations everyone!

I hope you've got your backup projects in place. I know I do!

I've got the following projects ready to accept GPU work:
- World Community Grid (which currently only has CPU apps)
- POEM@Home (very rarely has GPU tasks available)

... and I've got the following 4 projects set at 0 resource share, for exactly this situation, so my GPUs stay busy while I don't have any work available for my main projects:
- Einstein@Home
- SETI
- Albert@Home
- SETI Beta

So, remember, instead of complaining about lack of GPUGrid work, treat it as an accomplishment (we killed it - hurray!), and also keep those GPUs busy (to further serve humanity!)

Regards,
Jacob Klein

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Message 36267 - Posted: 13 Apr 2014 | 21:51:29 UTC

If the queue is empty it is also a good moment to let the rigs cool down, remove any dust everywhere, replace noisy fans, check the wiring, etc.


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Message 36268 - Posted: 13 Apr 2014 | 21:56:13 UTC - in response to Message 36267.

TJ:
That's not a bad idea. Do a little spring cleaning on the inside of the case, then put them to work again. Thanks for the tip :)

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Message 36273 - Posted: 14 Apr 2014 | 9:03:38 UTC

And I thought I would keep you fed for a while with my BARNA WU's ;(

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Message 36274 - Posted: 14 Apr 2014 | 9:23:43 UTC - in response to Message 36273.

And I thought I would keep you fed for a while with my BARNA WU's ;(



........... No, no, no - they were just an appetiser!!

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Message 36276 - Posted: 14 Apr 2014 | 11:26:26 UTC

The beefy GPUs go "NOM NOM NOM"

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Message 36277 - Posted: 14 Apr 2014 | 11:36:54 UTC

Tomorrow there should be new WUs for crunching, courtesy of Gianni and Nate.

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Message 36278 - Posted: 14 Apr 2014 | 13:30:31 UTC - in response to Message 36277.

Tomorrow there should be new WUs for crunching, courtesy of Gianni and Nate.


Thanks for the update.

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Message 36766 - Posted: 1 May 2014 | 18:13:20 UTC

Just a heads-up, server is running empty on longs having just one unsent at the time of this posting!

It would be nice to refill before the weekend! :)
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Message 36775 - Posted: 2 May 2014 | 11:55:32 UTC - in response to Message 36766.

Demand is outstripping supply!

When work is returned it's used to auto-generate new work, so even when there isn't much work, you should still get some, but maybe after a few tries rather than immediately...
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Message 36776 - Posted: 2 May 2014 | 13:30:04 UTC - in response to Message 36775.
Last modified: 2 May 2014 | 13:30:47 UTC

Yep - GPUGrid running out of work, is a GOOD thing. It means we are keeping pace with their needs :) This is exactly why I have backup GPU projects, to keep my GPUs busy, for science.

It's easy to setup backup projects -- just add another project, and set its Resource Share to 0. That way, the backup project only gets work when your main projects are dry, and it only gets a single task of work at a time, so it can frequently check the main projects to see if they're no-longer dry.

My backup projects are: Albert@Home, Einstein@Home, SETI@home, and SETI beta.

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Message 36777 - Posted: 2 May 2014 | 13:33:00 UTC - in response to Message 36776.

Yep - GPUGrid running out of work, is a GOOD thing. It means we are keeping pace with their needs :)


Alas, they are not keeping pace with our needs! :D
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Message 36781 - Posted: 2 May 2014 | 20:15:41 UTC
Last modified: 2 May 2014 | 20:16:30 UTC

That's more like it! :-)
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Message 36789 - Posted: 3 May 2014 | 16:25:23 UTC - in response to Message 36781.

That's more like it! :-)

Except for the bit where there isn't any CPU work!
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Message 36820 - Posted: 10 May 2014 | 14:21:45 UTC

There are no unsent workunits in the long and the short queue.
There are 1712 workunits in progress in the short queue, and 1445 in the long, so there could be a shortage in a couple of days when these numbers begin to drop.

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Message 36917 - Posted: 27 May 2014 | 17:25:57 UTC

No short workunits anymore :( wanted to fire up a slower 560ti 384 with shorts only as long it is under 20degress in autria ^^
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Message 36920 - Posted: 27 May 2014 | 18:51:19 UTC

Would be nice to have all servers completely empty for a few hours.
I still have error WU's, from last year's August and November! on my error list. Would love to see those leave so I will get an error free page.
New weaponry needs to be installed tomorrow, so no jobs for half a day suits me.
I did a re-wiring a few days ago, as it took longer then anticipated, my RAC dropped like a brick...

But I'm being selfish here, I hope you all get new WU's to crunch very soon.
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Message 36962 - Posted: 30 May 2014 | 13:45:16 UTC

Are there any plans for another batch on the short queue?

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Message 40732 - Posted: 1 Apr 2015 | 8:45:58 UTC

Both queues are empty.

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Message 40743 - Posted: 4 Apr 2015 | 19:55:58 UTC
Last modified: 4 Apr 2015 | 19:56:47 UTC

GPUGrid Queues are currently empty :)

This is a good thing, to some extent, because it means we've done a great job chewing through the work they had for us.

Hope you have those backup projects configured (projects with 0-resource-share). I'm anticipating my BOINC installation to automatically start running some Einstein/SETI tasks, when my current GPUGrid units get done. Then, it'll automatically switch back over to GPUGrid when they have more work again.

So, let's not complain. Let's rejoice. Keep on doing great work!

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Message 40745 - Posted: 4 Apr 2015 | 20:59:40 UTC - in response to Message 40743.
Last modified: 4 Apr 2015 | 21:54:19 UTC

As well as SETI and Einstein,
POEM has an opencl_nvidia_101 app and MilkyWay has Open_CL apps for NVidia cards.

I've emailed Gianni, Matt and the group just in case they didn't know.
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Message 40747 - Posted: 4 Apr 2015 | 23:32:39 UTC - in response to Message 40743.

Part of this might have been a result of a new user push. Until March 29, the user count was growing about 10 a day.

March 30 -- 214 new users
March 31 -- 608 new users
April 1 -- 245 new users
April 2 -- 124 new users
April 3 -- 50 new users.

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Message 40751 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015 | 6:49:54 UTC

We finished one of the storage filesystems and so new work units cannot run until this is fixed.

Of course it had to happen today. I am trying to fixing things up but it might take many hours because I am copying a lot of data out.

gdf

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Message 40754 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015 | 8:38:40 UTC - in response to Message 40751.

My house is getting cold. Might have to turn on some space heaters since the computers aren't doing the work.
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Message 40757 - Posted: 5 Apr 2015 | 11:09:54 UTC - in response to Message 40747.

Part of this might have been a result of a new user push. Until March 29, the user count was growing about 10 a day.

March 30 -- 214 new users
March 31 -- 608 new users
April 1 -- 245 new users
April 2 -- 124 new users
April 3 -- 50 new users.

This shows very clearly at the statistics sites - for example, http://boincstats.com/en/stats/45/project/detail/user.

It will be interesting to see how many of the new users remain as 'active' users, or 'users with recent credit', over the weeks and months to come. A recent encounter with something close to the "new user experience" makes me rather pessimistic.

I recently upgraded the video driver on two older hosts (43362, 43404). The GTX 750 Ti GPUs are a little marginal for returning long tasks within 24 hours - especially Gerard's latest offerings! - but do contribute successfully to this project.

The significant result of upgrading the driver was to increase my capability from cuda60 to cuda65 - and I started being allocated cuda65 tasks on those machines for the first time.

So I was braced for the BOINC server's generic handling of runtime estimates for a new app_version, and it was as bad as I expected. This isn't a criticism of the GPUGrid project - they have to use the server software provided by BOINC - but it makes for a very bad user experience.

Both these hosts show a long-term APR of over 100 GFlops for the cuda60 long tasks, both averaged over more than 250 tasks. But on a version change, BOINC throws all that accumulated knowledge away, and starts at rock bottom all over again.

And I mean rock bottom. I monitored 43404 most closely: BOINC started the new version off with an estimated speed of 2.1 GFlops, and gradually dropped it to 1.77 GFlops (probably those long Gerards again!). Long tasks at those speeds translate to estimated runtimes of 789 hours and 887 hours respectively - around 5 weeks. With a 5 day deadline, the BOINC client locally is clearly in deadline trouble, and reacts by preempting running GPU tasks from other projects to give priority to the GPUGrid task.

Those new users will see the same behaviour: multi-week estimates, 5-day deadlines, and GPUGrid 'monopolising' (as they will see it) their GPUs. That sort of thing gives projects a bad name, but - I stress - it's not GPUGrid's fault.

If the users persevere, and complete their initial 11 tasks, estimates will normalise and become realistic, and the 'high priority' running will go away - but how many users will have that patience? It took me over a week to nurse 43362 back to normality, and 43404 still isn't there yet.

I have written - yet again - to David Anderson urging him to address this problem of initial speed estimates for GPUs, but I'm not optimistic. His algorithm is designed to cope with the steady-state estimates for hosts which have completed hundreds or thousands of short tasks, and he sees that it is adequate for that purpose. But it's incomplete. I would urge the project administrators of GPUGrid (any any other project administrators who read this) to monitor the drop-out rate for those newly-recruited users, and if it causes them any concern, to raise the subject with David Anderson directly.

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Message 40822 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 12:02:40 UTC - in response to Message 40757.

Dear Richard,

As I am not sure if this thread about empty feeding servers is directly related to speed estimates, I would like to add that I have never seen multi-week estimates on any of my systems. From the start of a new system and through upgrades of software and of GPU hardware, I have not ever seen any estimate over 40 hours actually on any of my machines. I think I have actually noticed the exact opposite. I have noticed that sometimes (and it may be around updates and upgrades) that it will show something like 7 hours to complete and then end up with the countdown time not moving a second for a few seconds of more and lengthening the actual time to longer than the initial estimated time sometimes by 2-3 days. I have also noticed estimates of like 38-40 hours and then the countdown time counting 2-4 and even 5-8 second per actual second, and when that happens, it always ends up being an actual of exactly that amount of second divided by the estimation (meaning if it says there is 30 hours and it is counting 3 seconds per actual second, it will definitely finish in right around 10 hours.)

Those are all long run only computers. Now I do have one short run only computer because it is a laptop with a Quadro K2100M in it that cannot make even the shorter of the long runs in the deadline, which unfortunately I have had to prove to myself by waiting them out, but even then, the countdown (estimated) time counted one second for every actual 3-10 seconds counted on the count up timer. So maybe I am not seeing what you are seeing, maybe I have newer cards that all estimate better than older ones and maybe you are speaking of older ones (that is probably told in the Cuda versioning that you mentioned, but I don't know the versions and the cards as well as most probably), and maybe I just missed it completely whenever it happened, but I don't think even if I saw it and then it actually finished much much quicker than the estimate, it would turn me off much, because I would know that the work is being done and the bug of estimating the time was something that was just a bug or something that needed time to estimate my actual time. I mean, when I have to run something else (outside of BOINC) to take up time on the GPU because GPUGrid is out of work, when it comes back and I don't catch it for a day or two, it will take an actual 40 some hours to finish a task that normally would have finished in 7 hours and then when I turn that other program off again, it still estimates these actuals into my tasks on that computer for a while and counts 4-10 seconds on the countdown for each actual second on the count up. Then after a few tasks, it gets back to normal again. My point is, I have never seen what you are describing, if I am understanding what you are describing correctly.

Now, more to the point of this thread...

The queues went dry on and off on April fools day, but went completely dry on the night of April 3rd (Eastern Time zone, maybe early morning on the 4th in Europe and Asia) and since then my laptop has not gotten any work at all long enough for me to notice it in the short queue, and of the 4 long queues workers, I have opened 2 up with the 780s in them to short and long, left the one with the 980s in it only open to accept longs, and it just so happened that the 4th died on the 4th (the heatsink popped loose from the motherboard and was blowing smoke from the processor, so I am not sure how long it ran and I hope the processor isn't dead or the motherboard and some new thermal paste can be applied and it will be alive, though I think by the time there is smoke, it is worse off than paste and popping the heatsink back on can fix.) So one computer down and out, one computer down from not getting anything, and 3 computers running somewhere between 3 a day and none for hours, everyone's RAC is about 3/4 what we started at on the 4th and dropping every hour.

So I really hope more work comes out, these suspected new-comers that gobbled up new work will soon show that they are here to stay or give us back the work reassigned by the servers, and or that GPUGrid would even, to keep us happy and running, allow us to crunch on already run work units as a second and third validation of work to account for possible jitter of hardware, which is always present and possible, and most likely probable, at least during times when the queues are empty and there is no work to give out. I mean, would it be too difficult to feed us more than one time for each task when around 2500 tasks are fed to around 7,000 computers with recent credit with probably more than one GPU on several of those computers? If an adaptive task feeding server could be done to give 2500 tasks when 2500 computers are asking for work on 4000 (or more) GPUs/CPUs/Andriods, then give us 7500-10,000 task units by giving us those same 2500 tasks 3 and 4 times. I mean I think not getting work is a much bigger turn off for any project than getting bad estimated run times that end up being wrong and the work gets done in much shorter times. I mean if a 5 day deadline is set and a work unit is fed to me and the estimated time of finishing it says 336 hours, but then it finishes in 33.6 hours but my estimated time is dropping at the rate 10 times faster than real time, I think I get it and hang in there and learn to ignore it. But if I sign up for a project and never see work from it or only see work once a day or two and finish that work in 9 hours and the well runs dry every time I come for water, I find another well and leave this one behind. And if I learn that I am getting repeat work, it may sit a little wrong with me, but it sits better than not getting any.

Being hungry and not getting food is worse than getting too much to eat and not finishing and it is much worse than being told you have too much to eat and then only getting enough to fill you. That is for sure!

Now, the solution to that, I suppose, is to sign up for other project, set those projects to lower priorities than this one, and let it come back here when there is food..... but that leaves people like me out. People who 1) believe in one thing is best and more is too much (minimalists)(well minimalists willing to go all out maximum on one or two exclusive things) and also people want to see BOINC as it is kind of meant to be, which is a set it and forget it program, who now are being told, "Your house is cold because your computers are not running hard because GPUGrid is out of work and who knows when there will be more, but certainly, they could give you more work, because old work units can be reissued, but they won't do that and who knows why, so turn on a heater or run something else, even though you donated about $1,000 to them, spent money enough to buy 8 GPUs solely as Cuda based in order to run this project (which is no inexpensive thing to get 780's and 980s or even the Quadro in the laptop), and you only run their projects exclusively on purpose because you really believe in your work and none of the other projects, even though they are scientific or medical related, you don't believe in the people or the project itself." <---Well maybe nobody would ever ever say that, but you get the point. (BTW, I think a while back, I started talking to the project and not to Richard, so sorry for stating this was for you and then going off talking to you, Richard.)(Also, I am king of the run-on sentence, so please forgive me for running on and on.) But again, you see my point. Thanks for reading if any of you got through this rant/tired mumbling run-on. And please, if someone who runs or helps run this project reads this, reissuing tasks would solve a TON of user related frustrations when the well runs dry and may help eliminate some jitter in the task results themselves.

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Message 40824 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 12:50:49 UTC
Last modified: 11 Apr 2015 | 12:56:28 UTC

If an adaptive task feeding server could be done to give 2500 tasks when 2500 computers are asking for work on 4000 (or more) GPUs/CPUs/Andriods, then give us 7500-10,000 task units by giving us those same 2500 tasks 3 and 4 times.


If the work units do not need validation, then your proposal is a horrible idea.

I'm not here to waste my energy. I am here to complete the work that is available. To complete scientific work that can better humanity, and in as optimal away as we can.

Why are you here? You make it sound like all you care about is that your GPUs are busy, the heat is kept up in your home, and the stats keep coming in. You may need to rethink your priorities, and join some additional projects.

The moment a project decides to just reissue tasks for the sole purpose of "keeping devices fed", is the moment I leave the project.

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Message 40825 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 12:51:52 UTC - in response to Message 40822.

GPUGrid would even, to keep us happy and running, allow us to crunch on already run work units as a second and third validation of work to account for possible jitter of hardware, which is always present and possible, and most likely probable, at least during times when the queues are empty and there is no work to give out.


Couldn't disagree with you more.

I don't want (busy) work. Who wants to rack up electricity costs to run WU's that have already completed sucsessfuly without some solid justification.

NO THANKS!

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Message 40826 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 12:59:26 UTC - in response to Message 40824.


The moment a project decides to just reissue tasks for the sole purpose of "keeping devices fed", is the moment I leave the project.


Absolutely agree with you Jacob. There are other projects that need resources such as GPU's and CPU's without wasting them.

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Message 40827 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 13:37:50 UTC - in response to Message 40822.


validation of work to account for possible jitter of hardware, which is always present and possible, and most likely probable,


On that note, why don't you ease the overclock on your cards to prevent "jitter of hardware" since a lot of your results on the 980's at least contain "simulation has become unstable"???

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Message 40828 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 13:43:58 UTC
Last modified: 11 Apr 2015 | 13:46:29 UTC

caffeineyellow5:

Betting Slip is right, both of your GTX 980 computers are showing that message "Simulation has become unstable", which means (so far as I know) that the GPUs are clocked too high for their current voltage.

You should be able to complete work units, without receiving that message at all. Try lowering your clocks. You'll even have more valid results!

- Jacob

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Message 40830 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 13:48:08 UTC - in response to Message 40822.

Dear Richard,

As I am not sure if this thread about empty feeding servers is directly related to speed estimates, I would like to add that I have never seen multi-week estimates on any of my systems.

Sorry about the hijack. After I posted, I did report myself to the moderators for being 'off topic', and suggested that they split off your post about new users, and my response, as the starting point for another discussion in a new thread. They didn't choose to do that, as you can see.

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Message 40831 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 14:36:06 UTC - in response to Message 40824.

OK

I concede because that all makes sense. And yes, I do make it sound that way, but I am speaking more out of a tongue in cheek off humor than reality when I speak of heating the house and that sort of thing. But I think my experience with distributed projects may, and I stress MAY, be out-dated, but it may be based in reality. My experience with medical distributed projects goes back to the days of United Devices and the original cancer research project that they ran for Oxford and the National Foundation for Cancer Research. Back then it was all CPU and no GPU. It was also Pentium 3 and original Pentium 4 CPUs that were doing the work. So maybe the technology back then and the technology now has completely eliminated jitter between the hardware, but they needed several different computers to finish every work unit so that the jitter between them could be figured and only then could a single work unit be validated. So maybe now, a distributed project only needs to issue and return one copy of any work unit and either the technology on the user end is always completely trusted to always give back a proper result or the error detection in the process itself will detect every error possible OR the back-end "validator" servers can detect all the jitter of every unit based on one single result returned, but I doubt either of those are completely true.

And yes, it may sound like I am asking for "busy work", but I think there are 2 sides to that. One, the practical one that you made that it takes electricity to run them and that does cost money AND that there are other projects available for people who are not as selective as I am for what I actually do want my computers doing all day and night. But the the second side is the ones I have stated, which are that I believe in this project and want to do all the work I can for it, I spent the money not for stats, but that stats are there as the indication of how much work you are actually doing for the medical science and if not for the stats, you would not know how much work you or anyone is doing, but would have to take the word of the project that "you are doing a good job guys", and that because the problem of varied results would still exist from hardware and software differences and jitter of usages, then the solution would be to compare multiple result and not take one result per work unit as the end result of validation.

I don't believe technology has solved the problems of varied technologies. I actually think that the different cards, different software, different versions of software, different CPU/GPU combinations, different I/O rates and configurations, different everything in general has become more diverse and what people are doing with their computers since 2003 is much more diverse to the point that jitter in results is most likely a bigger problem now than back then! I am not doing this and spending all this time and money too heat the house, keep the GPUs full, and keep up my stats. I am doing all of this and care so deeply because the work is so valuable and important. All my stupid humor aside with heating the house and feeding the GPUs, the work, I honestly believe, needs validation of more than one run. At least 3 runs on different hardware/software/usage configurations, I believe is needed, even if it takes us longer to complete papers and whole tasks.

Now the other side of this is the end users, and I was specifically talking to Richard's claims that we will lose users based on bad estimation times. The users will/would be much more turned off by a project if the project continues to run out of work much more than an estimated time thing that works itself out anyway. When you go for a job interview and the company says they have no work for you, you go find work somewhere else and rarely if ever do you come back to ask again if they have any work now, if you find it somewhere else. When the well is dry, you find water elsewhere. When mom smacks your hand when you reach for the cookies, you learn not to reach for the cookies. Get it? To retain the users that Richard is saying will leave because of his problem leave because they can't get work, Richard is proved right over an issue that never even happened. I was not "yelling him down", I was only stating a different point that was more relevant. So when my most productive computer goes from 9-12 units a day to 2-3 and some of my computers don't see a task for 2 days, I know that people coming onto the project will be leaving as fast as they are coming. So let's say they do leave at the rate Richard expects and let's say it is a combination of both his and my pointed reasons and some others... and then a month down the road, we need a lot of users in a short period of time to complete a lot of work units (which is known to happen), and those users are gone... the project is in danger of not completing the task and we are stuck maybe not doing the medical science needed in time OR it was given as a test to see what our computing power could do in order to gain a new scientist who needs our GPUs for their work, just because we could not prove we could do our work and his/her additional work in time? Again, coming from United Devices cancer research, the whole almost 2 year non-profit research that did yield great medical scientific results in folding, cancer, anthrax, and a few other areas, all also had a double reason, and that was to prove the United Devices GRID platform could be effectively used by large companies to complete large scale tasks by their proprietary, for profit, software. And after they proved it with us in the non-profit realm, they agreed with the partners to stop the project so they could move on and sell the software to companies. They are still in business today as Univa and they are still selling that software. And in addition to selling the software after proving it, they also spawned the idea of medical research through computational GRID computing which primarily WCG and Folding@Home picked up and rolled with and which eventually led to GPUGrid itself. Without the pioneers in the for profit company doing non-profit work in medical sciences, we would not be here having this discussion. So the idea that you retain large amounts of people for the time when they are needed for something bigger by simply continually giving them work when their computers ask for it is a proven reason to make sure more people stay around FOR THE SCIENCE TO GET DONE when it is needed by more people in shorter time periods. Proving that you are the best in the group of options brings more scientists to you to get their work done. And that proof only comes by a consistent large computer base to feed work to.

So to all that, maybe there is other solutions that would keep you happy on your concerns and meet the concerns I bring up (which you may not even see as valid, but I can't not see as valid, since they are valid to me and valid based on my own experience and observation) and that might be that maybe all original work is set to use the current amount of GPU, which is like 65-75% or the GOPU and then all validation work is set to use like 10-15% and last longer per unit and have longer expiration dates. That would allow for validation, allow for the validation work to not cost a ton more than (but yes, more than) not using the GPU at all, and would keep the work units flowing to GPUs so that the "well" (as I have been referring to the feed server) doesn't run "dry". And, of course, an option in your "GPUGRID preferences" that you could reject all "Validation work units" by simply unchecking or checking a check box. And the stats would be less than original work or maybe not, but also based on time taken to complete and whatever else other distribution of points rules there are now with the added variable that it is not original unit work. I mean, if validation is needed, and I obviously think it is, then I would definitely leave that checkbox always checked, regardless of less points and longer run times, simply because 1) I know people will opt out of it for points and 2) I know it is needed for the science to produce more accurate results. And i would only hope that my computer never got the same validation or original unit twice, because then it might not add the needed amount of jitter needed to properly validate the unit such as multiple computers would for the same work unit.

I really think this either at the very least needs discussion and not just 2 sides OR it needs for the scientists themselves (or someone who represents them and knows how the work is done and validated at the computational back-end level) to explain why the work units do not need multiple runs on differing computer configurations in order to validate that the current single run/validation server configuration really produces 100% accurate results 100% of the time. 99% correct in medical science is just about 100% wrong when it reaches the publication level or when it reaches the application on human beings level. You need to know you got the right result or you have to assume you got the wrong one and need validation. All experiments need to be proven by duplication before they can be validated as fact. So even if not for the validation of the work units, the validation of the scientific process itself. Hypothesis leads to proving it once, then it is theory. Theory if duplicatable becomes fact. What we are currently doing, unless someone says otherwise is making theory out of hypothesis, but not duplicating it to prove it is fact. Has the scientific process changed since I was in high school? If not, we need validation and the idea of

If the work units do not need validation, then your proposal is a horrible idea.
is not valid. Please consider. TY

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Message 40832 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 14:52:08 UTC
Last modified: 11 Apr 2015 | 14:58:03 UTC

All my stupid humor aside with heating the house and feeding the GPUs, the work, I honestly believe, needs validation of more than one run.


I really think this either at the very least needs discussion and not just 2 sides OR it needs for the scientists themselves (or someone who represents them and knows how the work is done and validated at the computational back-end level) to explain why the work units do not need multiple runs on differing computer configurations in order to validate that the current single run/validation server configuration really produces 100% accurate results 100% of the time.


If I recall correctly, the scientists/admins here have previously explained, in a thread, why they set the minimum quorum at 1. They are intentionally not verifying the work, and they have their reasons. I'll try to dig up the thread for you, but I'd encourage you to do some digging.

... the idea of "If the work units do not need validation, then your proposal is a horrible idea." is not valid. Please consider. TY


What I said is absolutely correct, because if they don't need validation, then your proposal would only serve to waste.

By the way, there certainly is more than "electricity costs" involved here. In fact, I don't even care about the electricity costs. I care more about the harm that computing does to the environment! And so, my philosophy is that we should compute as efficiently as possible, and not waste, in order to preserve the environment.

I appreciate your concerns, I really do, and I understand where they're coming from. Validation makes sense, and people who love this project love to keep their devices busy doing work for this project. However, I think you need to reconsider your priorities, realize that they will sometimes run out of work, and have backup projects (who also desperately request your devices' usage) ready with 0-resource-shares.

I swear to you I'm trying to be helpful.

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Message 40833 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 14:59:03 UTC - in response to Message 40831.

TY on the 980s. I didn't realize that was happening over the past few days on that on GPU. I don't know why other than they happen on Windows Updates and other software updates days. I will see what I can do about that GPU. I am not sure that I am overclocking it, but I do use the MSI Afterburner to keep the temp down, so maybe that is also affecting the clock in some way. All 3 are reading the same settings and only the one is having that error and only since the 2nd.

I set the "Core Clock" into negative numbers now by a few Mhz, so we shall see if that does something for the Errors. But that is not the "jitter" I was referring to, although overclocking is another issue not many computers back in the day had either except the "enthusiast". Now everything comes out of the box overclocked, it seems. I was referring to the fact that if I do something on my computer and you do the same thing on yours, the results may have a slightly different byte-for-byte result if it takes both computers hours to perform. So not "jitter" of one task on one computer, but the kind of differing results that differing computers would create ever so slightly differing results and getting at least 3 of each and the more the better, would help "triangulate" where and when that "jitter" of differing results did occur between the results. Trusting one result without learning the jitter factor of the result can't lead to anything but a result that needs to be compared to another for verification, thus validating it. The "jitter" I was referring to is the jitter between rigs, not the jitter inside one rig.

(Thanks again for bringing those errors and solution to my attention.)

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Message 40834 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 15:03:11 UTC - in response to Message 40833.
Last modified: 11 Apr 2015 | 15:03:52 UTC

If you provide full make and model information for the GPUs, we could probably find out more about their clocks. I usually compare against the wiki pages, ie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_900_series

Anyway, they were likely factory-overclocked, too high, for intense applications like GPUGrid. Recommend taking Core clock down, in -20 MHz intervals, until it runs without problem.

If you have further questions about that issue, you can put it in a new thread. By the way, hopefully you saw my prior post.

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Message 40835 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 15:18:59 UTC

This may have been the post I was thinking of.

https://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3918&nowrap=true#38847

Re-reading it, it doesn't explicitly say that the GPUGrid scientists would not benefit from changing the minimum quorum value to a value higher than 1, but I'm sure they have it set at 1 for a reason.

I'll PM Stefan - maybe he'll chime in here :)

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Message 40836 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 15:34:07 UTC - in response to Message 40834.
Last modified: 11 Apr 2015 | 15:46:59 UTC

I saw after I wrote mine and am searching now.

So far I found
https://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=2892#23767
and
https://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3248#27987
and
https://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=699#6300

Two say they ran old work units during an empty queue in order to validate the work. Kind of my idea exactly.
The other says the error reporting allows 4 errors and then on the 5th it drops the work unit and fails it out. This seems to say that 4 errors is the "jitter" threshold and would therefore mean 1-4 errors needs the validation.

Then I think down in the depths of this one for 2009, if nothing has changed since then, which it probably has and even improved over what he promises and describes, it is at least AN answer, if not the one I was looking for from GDF:
https://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=901#8041
But I still KINDA like ExtraTerrestrial Apes' "intersting opportunity" in Message 8144 down in there before GDF's answer too. lol

Yes, I see your point and I will concede the discussion to you if in fact validation is not needed. Thank you for this also, as I didn't find it in my searches.
https://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3918&nowrap=true#38847

I am happy with this discussion, that at least I got my thoughts "on paper" as it were and got great feedback. I do apologize again for using my stupid idiomatic humor to state my thoughts clearly originally. I would appreciate Stefan's additional feedback to the discussed points, but again, I concede the points I made to be less important than the ones made to get the project to where it is today. This has obviously been not only brought up, but discussed in different ways and the current path was chosen for specific and better purposes and reasons. I will take Nate's reissues as oddities and the general single issue/error checking/validation server path to be the best for the science we are all participating in today. TY again and again.
____________
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Ephesians 6:18-20, please ;-)
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Message 40837 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 15:39:23 UTC
Last modified: 11 Apr 2015 | 15:49:43 UTC

And many thanks for sharing what you found. It's useful and informative.

:) I'm not looking to win. I just challenge your assumption that validation is needed here on GPUGrid. It's actually a great question, and I hope a scientist/admin chimes in with an explanation of their current approach. Edit: GDF's 2009 explanation is sufficient, in my mind, meaning that they are actively choosing not to do BOINC-based quorum validation. However, I hope Stefan does reply to my PM, and maybe makes a FAQ post regarding GPUGrid's decisions on validation and minimum quorum.

So... Have you got those GPUs prepared to work on backup projects, yet? I think it might be time, as the well will indeed run dry here occasionally :) I am attached to 35+ projects, even though my GPUs are setup to work for GPUGrid exclusively (by me setting my other GPU projects either to "don't use NVIDIA" or "0-resource-share backup project"). ... and once you have it set up, you don't need to manually fiddle with it. BOINC really is meant to be set it and let it do it's thing!

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Message 40838 - Posted: 11 Apr 2015 | 15:51:42 UTC - in response to Message 40837.
Last modified: 11 Apr 2015 | 15:53:12 UTC

I think I will continue to manually, as needed, turn on and off the other non-BOINC project that I do when GPUGrid has no work for them to do. That is, instead of other BOINC projects set to zero priorities inside the client.

Oh, if only all projects were wrapped in BOINC, right? lol

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Message 41931 - Posted: 3 Oct 2015 | 18:13:04 UTC - in response to Message 40838.
Last modified: 3 Oct 2015 | 18:16:48 UTC

...it's the dry season.

Application Unsent In progress Short runs 0 482 Long runs 0 2,201

____________
FAQ's

HOW TO:
- Opt out of Beta Tests
- Ask for Help

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Message 41948 - Posted: 5 Oct 2015 | 13:54:38 UTC

A new week starts but still no work... :(

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Message 41961 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015 | 15:28:15 UTC

Couple of things...

I am sure there are many, like me, who would welcome a status report from the project team. The silence is deafening.

I am now running einstein@home, but that is not a project aimed at health issues. Is there such a project that can take advantage of my GPU investment?

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Message 41962 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015 | 15:45:11 UTC
Last modified: 7 Oct 2015 | 15:46:19 UTC

Poem@Home might suit your purposes.

I run many (~30) projects, across my NVIDIA GPUs and my CPUs.

For my NVIDIA GPUs, they typically work on GPUGrid and Poem@Home, with equal resource share. For backup projects (0 resource share), I use SETI@Home and Einstein@Home.

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Message 41963 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015 | 16:06:21 UTC

Thanks Jacob!

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Message 41964 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015 | 17:27:34 UTC

Well! Just got two Gerards for one of my PCs. Queue remains
empty...

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Message 41965 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015 | 17:47:21 UTC - in response to Message 41961.
Last modified: 7 Oct 2015 | 17:51:54 UTC

I am sure there are many, like me, who would welcome a status report from the project team. The silence is deafening.
I'm not in the project team, but I'm keeping one eye on the project's webpages.

Well! Just got two Gerards for one of my PCs. Queue remains empty...
I see on the webpages (and on my hosts) what you've just experienced:
The long queue is continuously (couple of times in a day) filled with work, without significant reserve.
I guess that the results are needed as soon as possible for the ongoing research, so it's practical to produce short batches with no reserve, as if there were twice as many batches in progress at the same time, it would take twice as much time to complete all of them.

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Message 41966 - Posted: 7 Oct 2015 | 18:03:27 UTC - in response to Message 41965.

I guess that the results are needed as soon as possible for the ongoing research, so it's practical to produce short batches with no reserve

You're guessing, I'm guessing, EVERYONE is guessing!

Pretty please, project team, tell us what's happening...

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Message 41973 - Posted: 8 Oct 2015 | 9:22:22 UTC - in response to Message 41966.

As Retvari suggested, the amount of WU we have now in circulation allows us to have a fast turnover which is ideal for our adaptive protocol, that analyses new returned simulations as soon as they arrive and generates new ones from the results obtained.

Anyway, I will start preparing some extra WU.

I apologize for not answering right away, but as you can imagine sometimes academic life doesn't give you time for even checking the forums...

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Message 41974 - Posted: 8 Oct 2015 | 9:32:11 UTC - in response to Message 41973.

Would it to not be beneficial to the project to have a policy of only 1 WU for each available and free GPU. You would save a lot of time as some users cache WU's for hours that could be running on a machine that has no work.

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Message 41978 - Posted: 8 Oct 2015 | 15:13:45 UTC - in response to Message 41973.

As Retvari suggested, the amount of WU we have now in circulation allows us to have a fast turnover which is ideal for our adaptive protocol, that analyses new returned simulations as soon as they arrive and generates new ones from the results obtained.
Could be the "very long" workunits more appropriate for this method? Perhaps a bit better prepared than last time :)
There should be a 3rd queue for this kind of workunits, which would send work only for GTX 780, 780 Ti, 970, 980, 980 Ti, Titan, Titan X cards?

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Message 41980 - Posted: 9 Oct 2015 | 13:44:54 UTC

Bit of a short WU drought....

I would like to keep my two GTX 650Ti GPUs busy with GPUGrid WUs. There are in short supply: any idea when we will have more?

I am using the two GTX 660Ti GPUs for long WUs and hope there will be enough available for this long weekend in Canada - long and short WUs welcome.

Happy Thanksgiving, Valencia Day and any other special day to all wherever you may be.

JCM

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Message 42000 - Posted: 14 Oct 2015 | 1:52:46 UTC

Sure would love more work units. Have 2 hungry GPUs waiting for work.

Thanks.

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Message 42001 - Posted: 15 Oct 2015 | 11:19:57 UTC - in response to Message 42000.

Sure would love more work units. Have 2 hungry GPUs waiting for work.

Thanks.


Agreed the process is taking too long, or people are too busy to keep up with it. Lack of units is forcing people into backup projects, which then means you have to be extra lucky to ask for new units just at the right time when there are some, or people will stay on the backup projects forever. At some point alot of people will just stop asking, which then means those who stay could get some work, but will it be worthwhile doing at that point? I hope this does not become a downward spiral for GpuGrid!!

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Message 42002 - Posted: 15 Oct 2015 | 11:31:00 UTC - in response to Message 42001.
Last modified: 15 Oct 2015 | 11:40:32 UTC

Not sure how I have setup my backup project which is poem@home. But when there's work available for gpugrid my client downloads the WU and my backup project stops and the GPUgrid WU starts. Works well so far

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Message 42003 - Posted: 15 Oct 2015 | 11:32:54 UTC - in response to Message 42001.

Gerard has alread explained why WU's are short so stop whining.

Lots of software changes have been happening in the last three weeks (essentially all analysis/simulation building programs in Matlab have been recoded almost from scratch to Python) and most of the lab has been dedicated to this endeavour. This left me as the only net contributor to GPUGRID and, as I explained elsewhere (https://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3570), the strategy I took is to send the exact number of Workunits to keep the whole the network busy and allowing a fast turnover following our adaptive scheme (for which each simulation generates a new one after analysis of the results of previous ones). This is the cause for the slight WU availability drop.

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Message 42004 - Posted: 15 Oct 2015 | 17:25:31 UTC
Last modified: 15 Oct 2015 | 17:34:51 UTC

Right now im coming back with a (overwinter, homeheating) 780TI and no work, noo good start *wait wait waitiinnggg* :)
____________
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Crunching for my deceased Dog who had "good" Braincancer..

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Message 42005 - Posted: 16 Oct 2015 | 9:44:16 UTC - in response to Message 42004.
Last modified: 16 Oct 2015 | 13:01:09 UTC

I'll be sending some heavy long WU later this afternoon

EDIT: batch name is CXCL12_DIM_3GG_c36; takes around 12.2 hours in my tesla K20c (according to prediction).

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Message 42006 - Posted: 16 Oct 2015 | 10:12:18 UTC - in response to Message 42005.

I'll be sending some heavy long WU later this afternoon (batch *3GG_DIM_TRIM*)


♫♫ Give them to us, we're worth them! ♫♫
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Message 42008 - Posted: 16 Oct 2015 | 12:13:42 UTC

From skimming over this thread I understand the shortage of WUs comes from the benefit of doing faster/better science? If I am wrong please correct me.

If not then the tone and the attitude of some of you guys is like that of entitled spoiled brats.

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Message 42010 - Posted: 16 Oct 2015 | 13:02:49 UTC - in response to Message 42008.

Indeed you are correct. Takes not much more work to send double the number of WU. However, cueing WU slows the overall thoughput.

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Message 42011 - Posted: 16 Oct 2015 | 15:50:59 UTC - in response to Message 42010.

I normally set my "Resource share" to 0% anyway for this project, in order to obtain a zero-buffer size. That of course maximizes the time available for crunching and allows me to get the 24-hour bonus with some cards.

Maybe you could set up a separate queue for that purpose? Some people may like it, and others may not.

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Message 42064 - Posted: 1 Nov 2015 | 0:28:36 UTC

Out of WU today ?

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Message 42086 - Posted: 2 Nov 2015 | 10:46:00 UTC - in response to Message 42064.

There should be plenty of WU in the next hours.

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Message 42141 - Posted: 11 Nov 2015 | 22:03:23 UTC

More WUs please! I've got plenty of capacity. Just need more work.
Thanks.

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Message 42142 - Posted: 11 Nov 2015 | 22:03:28 UTC

More WUs please! I've got plenty of capacity. Just need more work.
Thanks.

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Message 42143 - Posted: 11 Nov 2015 | 22:06:12 UTC

If they don't have work to give, then... How are they going to satisfy your request?

The solution is simple. Set up 0-resource-share backup projects, and whenever GPUGrid runs out of work, your GPUs will still keep busy with other projects until GPUGrid has more.

Patience ... and backup projects ...

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Message 42144 - Posted: 12 Nov 2015 | 9:34:40 UTC - in response to Message 42142.

Topping up in progress...

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Message 42145 - Posted: 12 Nov 2015 | 14:30:28 UTC - in response to Message 42144.

Topping up in progress...


Thanks.

I just got my main computer up and running again last night after having moved, and was hopping there wasn't something goofy going on on my end of things.

I'm back crunching toward my current goal of 1 billion credits on this computer (for the projects I care most about).

Cheers.
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Message 42146 - Posted: 12 Nov 2015 | 14:47:02 UTC - in response to Message 42143.

If they don't have work to give, then... How are they going to satisfy your request?

The solution is simple. Set up 0-resource-share backup projects, and whenever GPUGrid runs out of work, your GPUs will still keep busy with other projects until GPUGrid has more.

Patience ... and backup projects ...


Yes, the main goal should be to do good work crunching. To that end, it's best to have backup projects that you care for too.

That being said, I prefer crushing for GPUGRID for a couple of reasons, both for the kind of work that it does and that it can utilize my computer's available resources more effectively. So, it's nice when there are work tasks available for it.
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Message 42153 - Posted: 13 Nov 2015 | 1:27:49 UTC - in response to Message 42144.

Topping up in progress...


1,182 unsent Long Run tasks.

Wow. Let's see how fast we can get through that!

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Message 42161 - Posted: 13 Nov 2015 | 13:55:51 UTC

What about short runs?

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Message 46831 - Posted: 6 Apr 2017 | 17:39:18 UTC
Last modified: 6 Apr 2017 | 18:11:34 UTC

No tasks available! We crunched everything:-)

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Message 46832 - Posted: 7 Apr 2017 | 16:47:55 UTC

If they had more researchers like folding@home, they could easily saturate the supercomputer

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Message 47180 - Posted: 9 May 2017 | 14:30:56 UTC - in response to Message 46832.

Are we out of WU's to crunch again? Server status shows 0's across the board on unsent tasks. Is that a glitch or have we really run this thing dry?

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Message 47182 - Posted: 9 May 2017 | 19:42:13 UTC - in response to Message 47180.

Are we out of WU's to crunch again? Server status shows 0's across the board on unsent tasks. Is that a glitch or have we really run this thing dry?

this happens once in a while

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Message 47183 - Posted: 9 May 2017 | 23:37:11 UTC - in response to Message 47180.

Are we out of WU's to crunch again? Server status shows 0's across the board on unsent tasks. Is that a glitch or have we really run this thing dry?


Same old same old. Why do we have the same question when the server status page says (0) (Zero) WU's available?

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