Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : GPU Grid specific computer
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Hey guys.. | |
ID: 22990 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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HI | |
ID: 22992 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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So I want to build a computer that will be solely for GPUGrid computing.. That means I want to squeeze as many GPUs into the case as possible.. A standard ATX case has only 7 slots at the rear, also the motherboards have 7 PCIe slots at maximum. You should also consider to maximize performance, the motherboard should have as many PCIe x16 slots as possible, because slower PCIe slots hinder the performance of the GPU. Also, a CPU core per GPU is needed to maximize performance. This is where I need help.. What motherboard should I get that can hold as many gpus as possible? I would suggest the Asus P6T7 WS SuperComputer motherboard with a 6-core i7 CPU (i7-970, i7-980, i7-980x, i7-990x), as it has 7 PCIe 2.0 x16 slots. Sapphire Pure Black has only two x16, two x8 and two x4 slots (while all of them are capable of taking an x16 card, but they will run slower). When a slot 2011 mb will come out with 7 PCIe 3.0 x16 slots, it will supercede the P6T7 WS SC. How many GPUs are we looking at here? At maximum 7 GPUs can be put in a single motherboard, but it will need a very good water cooling (possibly 4 of them). It will also need two good 1200W power supply (as it is advised for longevity and efficiency reasons not to utilize a power supply over 50-70% of it's nominal wattage in long term). I'm trying to figure out what's feasible/reasonable... and I want to build this over time. I know I can get 460's for fairly reasonable prices off ebay so if I could get a whole pack of them in a case then that'd be pretty cool.. For GPUGRid it's better to have a top end CC2.0 card (GTX 570, 580, 590, 470, 480), than two CC2.1 cards (as only the 2/3rd of their shaders will be used by GPUGrid). I suggest you to wait a couple of months, because nVidia is going to release a new series of GPUs (i.e. Kepler). | |
ID: 22997 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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For GPUGrid, top cards tend to be double slot width, so well spaced out slots are desirable. A motherboard with 7 single spaced slots can support no more double spaced GPU's than a board with 4 double spaced slots! | |
ID: 23001 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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That is an interesting question which has to be answered directly with another question: how extreme do you want to get? A couple points to consider: | |
ID: 23004 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Anything over ~$2000 deserves the bespoke touch. | |
ID: 23006 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Wow guys this is great information, thank you very much. | |
ID: 23014 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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You can get full PCIE raisers, | |
ID: 23017 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Don't forget , the more GPUs , the more POWER. | |
ID: 23083 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Or a second PSU.. There are nice little boards over at frozencpu that allow you to have one PSU that turns on the second one.. | |
ID: 23084 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I plan 2 GTX590 Just in case you didn't already know: wait for Kepler, which should be just 1 - 2 months away. Either it's way better than the current ones (one certainly more efficient), or it at least drives drives the prices of current cards down. and you should be able to get some good 2nd hand cards from people who upgrade. MrS ____________ Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002 | |
ID: 23085 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I plan 2 GTX590 You are right but as I just bought a GTX590 a few days ago, I want to wait cause this is expensive (more than 700€ for a Gigabyte). For the moment I want to mount the 2 GTX460 I already have on the Sabertooth mobo I already purchased with the PSU and CPU and DDR and watercooling for the CPU... ____________ Lubuntu 16.04.1 LTS x64 | |
ID: 23086 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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You can get full PCIE raisers, What kind of "gotchas" are there with using risers like this? And where can I find them? I have been browsing around and going to my local electronics shops and can't find ribbon risers like this.. | |
ID: 23098 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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The obvious gotcha would be length - you can get several different lengths. | |
ID: 23104 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Or a second PSU.. There are nice little boards over at frozencpu that allow you to have one PSU that turns on the second one.. It's very easy to turn on the second PSU, just wire the green cables of the PSUs (they will be grounded together by other cables like the PCIe power cables). You have to choose your second PSU carefully: it has to be regulating the 12V only, and it should use DC-DC converters for making 5V and 3.3V from the 12V. If it's not this type (regulating the 5V and the 12V, and making 3.3V with DC-DC converters), then it should have some load (for example a HDD) on the 5V rail. | |
ID: 23110 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I made some research from wikipedia, a cheap vendor and cpubenchmark. Just in case it can help to make a decisition on what Socket and CPU buy. | |
ID: 23257 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Thaks very much about all the info to Retvari Zoltan and Skgiven. | |
ID: 23260 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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That board seems like a solid choice. However, it's nothing special. The PCIe lanes come off the CPU, which means if you use 2 GPUs it's going to be 2 x 8x, is it is with all socket 1155 boards. And the current Sandy Bridge CPUs don't support PCIe 3, as far as I know. That's only going to be possible with Ivy Bridge (soon to come). | |
ID: 23261 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I'm not sure if you are aware of that none of the CPUs on your list will fit in the motherboard you've chosen. | |
ID: 23262 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I'm planning to build two computers with that motherboard and Pentium i5 2300. with 2 GPUs each. | |
ID: 23263 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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The choice of GPU(s) is the most important consideration. | |
ID: 23264 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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AnandTech demonstrated that the compute capability of an HD7970 is 9% higher using PCIE3 than when using PCIE2. That's only true for this specific code. It really varies on an app-to-app basis: you could only work within the GPU cache, like MW does, or stream huge amount of data between system memory and GPU or require frequent communication between the two. In the latter case a faster interface will help, but only then. @Damaraland: building two value-computers for crunching with 2 GPUs each seems like a good idea to me. You avoid many hassles, can get away with smaller PSUs and I dare say a Celeron G530 would be enough to power 2 GPUs at GPU-Grid. You could always drop in an Ivy Bridge Quad later on. Just don't skimp on the GPUs, that's not worth it :) MrS ____________ Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002 | |
ID: 23269 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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You could always drop in an Ivy Bridge Quad later on. Just don't skimp on the GPUs, that's not worth it :) Hmmm very, very interesting... Ivy Bridge to launch on April 8 Prices of Ivy Bridge desktop CPUs | |
ID: 23271 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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When crunching at stock the voltage on my i7-2600 is 1.18 and my i7-2600K is 1.05V. The i7-2600K uses 65W crunching; 30W less than the TDP, or just under 70% of the TDP. If IB with it's 77W TDP performs similarly then it's likely to use around 54W when crunching. The clock of the top IB is 'disappointingly' the same as the SB, 3.5GHz, and there are no more cores, but if it performs as expected, around 15% better clock for clock, then that would be the equivalent of a SB at 4GHz and only using 54W. | |
ID: 23276 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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In terms of performance per Watt that's about 38% better than SB and at the same price. Tick-tock!?! Yes, but - for a crunching system with a top GPU the power saving would probably be <5% of the entire systems draw. Suddenly that 15% CPU boost doesn't look that special, and nor should it, GPU's are where the heavy work is done. To me Intel doesn't want 1155 to do too well. Intel began with dual channel RAM, rather than triple and 5years after introducing a quad core CPU we are still stuck with 4 cores for desktops. Why not a 4GHz IB, or at least 3.8GHz (without turbo)? It would have been inside 95W. Even a 3GHz 6 core CPU would have been ~95W. You've answered your question: GPU's are where the heavy work is done. Intel knows it too, that's why the second benefit of IB is its IGP, which is much better than SB's. But it's still not a match for Fermi, nor Kepler, nor the new AMD GCN architecture, so from the crunchers' point of view the only benefit that matters is its PCIe3 support. | |
ID: 23278 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Sure, for GPU-Grid the CPU performance doesn't matter. Any Quad would be too much ehre to serve 2 GPUs. However, in BOINC land we sometimes run non-GPU stuff on our CPUs, which is very IB would be an excellent choice. | |
ID: 23282 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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i7 800: outdated and you don't save much by going for S1156 compared to S1155. You could save a lot if you could buy some used i7-8x0 series CPU. Also, the socket 1156 motherboards (even new ones) are cheaper. A cruncher MB does not require SATA3 or USB3.0, only PCIe3 matters, when the Kepler and the IB will arrive in april, so I would rather wait to buy anything until then. i7 900: even more outdated and 30 W higher idle power consumption of the system. Bad choice (in the context of this thread). Idle power of a cruncher PC? This argument made me LOL. :D Regarding higher clocks: Intel doesn't think it's neccessary right now. And they're probably right about this.. Agreed. If someone needs the extra speed, one could buy either a K or X series CPU. | |
ID: 23284 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Idle power of a cruncher PC? This argument made me LOL. :D Sorry, I was actually thinking something.. :p If you meausre idle power, the (modern) CPU is basically out of the equation. What's drawing power then is first and foremost the mainboard chipset, followed by RAM, drives etc. So if a platform (with CPUs with similar excellent power saving features) draws 30 W more at idle, the same holds true under load. Example for a 100 W CPU, and simplifying a little: S1155: idle 40 W, + 100 W CPU -> 140 W S1366: idle 70 W, + 100 W CPU -> 170 W MrS ____________ Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002 | |
ID: 23288 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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The i7-800's can only support 8thread CPU's (plenty for most), whereas the i7-980 and similar are 32nm 12thread processors. So for those of us that crunch CPU projects, | |
ID: 23299 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Just please remember that while we compute compute for cures, we also are contributing to disease via environmental degradation. I can understand using your normal computer to crunch in the off-time but its questionable whether buying multi-kilowatt machines specifically for this is worthwhile. Chances are much of your energy comes from non green sources, but even if it does, a lot of pollution goes into the manufacturing of computer parts don't forget. | |
ID: 23437 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Just please remember that while we compute compute for cures, we also are contributing to disease via environmental degradation. This is a hypocritical reasoning. I can understand using your normal computer to crunch in the off-time but its questionable whether buying multi-kilowatt machines specifically for this is worthwhile. Chances are much of your energy comes from non green sources, but even if it does, a lot of pollution goes into the manufacturing of computer parts don't forget. It's all the same for the gaming computers, and they don't generate any scientific progress, just pollution (and amusement). Oh, and don't forget the known and unknown multi-megawatt supercomputers, used for rendering movies, breaking codes, monitoring phone calls, simulating nuclear weapons etc. I'm sure it's fine if only a limited few are doing this but I don't think it would be reasonable for everyone to have 1000 watt computers running 24/7. And please, if you compute in the summer (I don't), dont put it in an air conditioned area because that will effectively triple (I think is a reasonable approximation) your energy consumption to compensate for it. Triple (200% more energy for cooling) is overestimation. The air conditioner is a heat pump, it consumes the fraction of the energy compared to the transmitted energy. 15-20% more energy for cooling is reasonable. The Sun heats the Earth's surface in the summer approximately 1.5-2kW per square meters, so an 1kW computer is not too much extra. On the flip side you could use it as your heater in the winter, which would effectively mean you are running it for free if you normally need a lot of heat in the area you have it :] This is a self-justification. It's not free, because electricity costs and pollutes double compared to regular heating methods. It's worth it, when the heating is a side effect of crunching. | |
ID: 23451 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Compute centers usually calculate with a 1:1 ratio between generated heat and power needed to cool it down. So I agree: running PCs "just for fun" with an AC is not the best idea in the world.. although I understand it's kind of normal in some southern US states. | |
ID: 23454 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Electric heat pumps are common in the southern US, where temperatures generally do not fall below freezing. Further north, natural gas is common (what I have in North Carolina), as well as standard heating oil. It's a mixed bag. Geothermal is available, but not widely used to date. | |
ID: 23456 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Been crunching a while and had 2 different systems fail due to heat so be careful if you try to cram too many hot things is a box. | |
ID: 23592 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Been crunching a while and had 2 different systems fail due to heat so be careful if you try to cram too many hot things is a box. Or use something like this: http://www.netstor.com.tw/_03/03_02.php?ODI= There are several different sizes available. | |
ID: 23593 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Heat always reduces the life of electronic components. Had 2x ATI HD 5770 cards crunching and the hot one (the top one that had restricted air flow) gave up the ghost. Separate those cards if you want them to last. That's why I chose the MSI board I mentioned before. The two PCI are well spaced. Plenty space for air flow between 2x GTX 560. | |
ID: 23597 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Or use something like this: That looks cool, but how does it work? It looks like all the bandwidth goes to a single PCIe 1x slot?? | |
ID: 23603 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Or use something like this: I don't personally use one so can't answer that, but I am sure the company will. | |
ID: 23607 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I don't personally use one so can't answer that, but I am sure the company will. There's a pdf with specs on the link | |
ID: 23609 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I'm having a little trouble with the math but assuming I'm reading the specs correctly that Turbo Box will be a bottleneck. It looks like the Turbo Box runs from a 4x link that must be shared between video cards. The stated top speed is 20Gb/s (note the lower case "b" indicating bits). | |
ID: 23618 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Would not recommended that to crunch with a top GPU, and I would not go with a laptop based system anyway. It would cost less to build a desktop box than go with that thing. | |
ID: 23624 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I'm having a little trouble with the math but assuming I'm reading the specs correctly that Turbo Box will be a bottleneck. It looks like the Turbo Box runs from a 4x link that must be shared between video cards. The stated top speed is 20 Gb/s (note the lower case "b" indicating bits).According to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bit_rates#Computer_buses a PCIe 2.0 4x bus is good for 16 Gb/s which is the closest thing on the list. This is equivalent to PCIe 1.0 8x speed. From my crunch boxes with multiple cards I can tell you that 4x vs 16x does make a difference, but not a huge difference. Cards in the 16x slot run perhaps 10% faster than they do in the 4x slot. Now sharing a 4x slot would be even worse and a high end GPU would make it worse as well. The laptop link is only 5 Gb/s so the situation is worse still on a laptop. | |
ID: 23683 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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I am using a SYS4027GR-TR server from Supermicro. It has an eight gpu capacity. Running right now with six GPU'S. Four GTX 780 ti, one GTX Titan and one GTX Titan X. Server has two six core E5-2600 v2 cpu's. Has two 1000W PSU and two PSU for redundancy. All works fine. 64DB is the noise level at two feet from server. I will need to get some 90 degree pcie 8 pin and 6 pin adapters because the lid will not close because the power connectors on the gpu's are on top. Small problem, but can be fixed.[/img] | |
ID: 41626 | Rating: 0 | rate:
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Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : GPU Grid specific computer